Well, I’ve been a lurker and it has been months with not much to show for besides lots of hype. Is this game really a reinvention of the TCG/CCG? Let’s look at the key selling points Decipher is pushing. Please, I am not bashing the game but am really critically looking at these KSPs.

•Packaging (Kilos; no boosters, no starters)

Sure. Instead of calling it a starter deck, core deck or booster, they are calling it Kilo. Yet Decipher refers to it as being the equivalent of ‘ten boosters’. What is it? A kilo = one MASSIVE booster. Euphemisms.

•Distribution (Internet only; no retailers, no distributors)

Sure. Cut out the middlemen and get a larger cut of profits. Greed. But where do people play every Friday? Erm, yeah, their local store. Why will retailers/stores support this game if they can’t even SELL it? Are players going to have to organise tournaments at their homes? Will they have the resources to organise large tournaments?

•“Invitation only” (you must be invited to join)

Sounds good and exclusive. Will this serve to get the word out or make the barrier for entry THAT much harder? Why not let anyone play? That’s how MtG are successful. They have lots of innovations to grab new players.

•Gameplay (multi-character, 15-minute gameplay, deck options)

Remains to be seen if this is true. Can’t tell without any playdecks and proper rules. Didn’t the City of Heroes try to make a 15-minute game? Where is the game now? Also, I’m not sure if limiting the game to 15 minutes will appeal that much. Will the game end up being a filler played by players during tournaments for other games??

•Licensing (multi-license, longer life-cycle, player voting)

Great great great. Tell us what licenses you’ve gotten so far. Is this what’s holding the game up?

•Financial Rewards (10% for life for Mentors and Connectors)

Oh God. This is multi-level marketing meets TCG/CCG. All for it but will it end up driving the game instead of the gameplay?

•Player Empowerment (select heroes and villains, participate in game development)

Participate in game dev? Sure. Start by giving up a proper playtest kit.

•Viral Marketing (players/ Mentors/ Connectors building community)

Let’s see. MtG does this without calling it viral marketing. The success of MtG (aside from the fact that it’s a great game) is due to it’s large prize circuit. That’s the only way for a game to take off. Do you have the budget to take players away from MtG while ago getting new players? UDE are trying damn hard and they’ve tossed in lots of $$$.

•Pricing (cost 25% less than other TCGs, $100 per expansion)

Great. Like this. However, other companies have tried to innovate along the same lines: provide more cards per booster, foil card per pack, possibility of two rares, ultrarares etc. Also with online discounting, many CCGs are available at 25% off retail. Making it the same cost as Fight Klub.

•Direct-to-you (delivery worldwide for $4.95 shipping cost)

I like this. Delivery to doo for a low price. I can live with this. It’s not really an innovation as some CCG companies also sell via website (albeit with higher shipping costs).

•Subscription (every card for a year, including premium cards)

Again, nice idea. Will players get a ‘discount’ for going on subscription? What’s the incentive?

•Subscription (every card for a year, including premium cards)

Again, nice idea. Will players get a ‘discount’ for going on subscription? What’s the

Yup, you’ll save around $50+.

•Player Empowerment (select heroes and villains, participate in game development)

Participate in game dev? Sure. Start by giving up a proper playtest kit.

Decipher mentioned that they are going to make a playtest kit shortly after the new site is launched.

•Gameplay (multi-character, 15-minute gameplay, deck options)

Remains to be seen if this is true. Can’t tell without any playdecks and proper rules. Didn’t the City of Heroes try to make a 15-minute game? Where is the game now? Also, I’m not sure if limiting the game to 15 minutes will appeal that much. Will the game end up being a filler played by players during tournaments for other games??

The draft that we have right now is very close to final rules draft. I like the idea of short games, it makes it better in my opinion. This way you can more games in the same amount of time. When I played LotR with my friends our games usually take at least 1 hour each, so with FK we can play a game of FK in between LotR or just pay a lot of FK games at one time.

To respond to a few of your points:

“•Packaging (Kilos; no boosters, no starters)

Sure. Instead of calling it a starter deck, core deck or booster, they are calling it Kilo. Yet Decipher refers to it as being the equivalent of ‘ten boosters’. What is it? A kilo = one MASSIVE booster. Euphemisms.”

And in how many other games does buying one unit (whatever you want to name it) give you every uncommon, every common (twice!) and 1/3 of the pool of rares? 3 Kilos and you have a playset of U, a double playset of C (good for demo decks for newbies) and the potential to have every rare, a little trading and your golden, or use your surplus to spice up the aforementioned demos.

“•Distribution (Internet only; no retailers, no distributors)

Sure. Cut out the middlemen and get a larger cut of profits. Greed. But where do people play every Friday? Erm, yeah, their local store. Why will retailers/stores support this game if they can’t even SELL it? Are players going to have to organise tournaments at their homes? Will they have the resources to organise large tournaments?”

Hence connectors to keep the card shops interested (maybe not ideal but something). And the benefit of players not haveing to pay 20-30% retailer mark up is nothing to scoff at.

“•“Invitation only” (you must be invited to join)

Sounds good and exclusive. Will this serve to get the word out or make the barrier for entry THAT much harder? Why not let anyone play? That’s how MtG are successful. They have lots of innovations to grab new players.

•Financial Rewards (10% for life for Mentors and Connectors)

Oh God. This is multi-level marketing meets TCG/CCG. All for it but will it end up driving the game instead of the gameplay?”

And how do people learn about and decide to play MtG or any other C/TCG, walk into a store and go ooo that looks like fun? No. They are introduced by someone else who already loves and plays the game. Why not have that be the primary intended method of play, and give the introducing player an incentive to do so. Sounds like a win/win to me.

“•Pricing (cost 25% less than other TCGs, $100 per expansion)

Great. Like this. However, other companies have tried to innovate along the same lines: provide more cards per booster, foil card per pack, possibility of two rares, ultrarares etc. Also with online discounting, many CCGs are available at 25% off retail. Making it the same cost as Fight Klub.”

Sure you can get the same number of cards for an equivalent price but how likely are you to getting a full set of cards for that? With most any other CCG you have to by 3 or more boxes of boosters just to have a shot at getting all the cards and that’s at 70-80 bucks a pop (50 bucks at the best of online prices). Not to mention that you need to douple or triple that if you want a full playset. With the deck building rules for fight club you can have a full playset for $100 plus some trading. This point definately goes to Fight Klub.

I could go on but I’ve said enough for now. The point is Decipher has laid the groundwork for what truly could be a revolution. Will it be? Well that depends on how successful they are, and that depends on how much we try to make it happen. The potential is there… the questiong is how far it will take us.

The success of MtG (aside from the fact that it’s a great game) is due to it’s large prize circuit. That’s the only way for a game to take off.

That’s definitely not the only way for a game to take off, plenty of games do just fine without offering big prizes. They may not be on the same scale as MtG but if that’s the only way you’re judging success then you’re being incredibly short-sighted. I’d term a game a success if it turns a healthy profit and keeps selling product, keeping players interested and attracting new players.

Frankly if Decipher start trying to emulate MtG then I’m out of here. Got no time for that game or the type of overly competitive, win-at-all-costs-and-hang-the-other-guy players that it attracts at all (not MtG players are like that btw, just want to make that clear).

Frankly if Decipher start trying to emulate MtG then I’m out of here. Got no time for that game or the type of overly competitive, win-at-all-costs-and-hang-the-other-guy players that it attracts at all (not MtG players are like that btw, just want to make that clear).

Wow, I’ve never been so offended by a post in my…just kidding, it’s totally true.

Great counterpoints to the discussion by all posters. Thanks.

I stopped playing MtG years ago though I still like the game. It’s hard not to mention MtG when talking about CCGs/TCGs are they are still the benchmark for the genre. Though I did enjoy Deciphers Star Wars CCG too!

I’m not huge on hype machines and my biggest issue is with Decipher hyping this game up as if it’s going to completely change the landscape of CCGs. But the only real innovation (as far as I can tell) is with distribution methods.

Cheap (aggressive?) pricing? That’s not innovation but I welcome it. I do think that Decipher should reconsider the ‘direct from us to you’ model. It could work but if they want this to be THE ccg that people are playing, they need the support of stores.

15 minute gameplay? Perfect for the busy individual. The danger with this is that the game might end up being played as a filler between boardgaming sessions or CCG sessions. Nothing wrong with that but if it’s just a filler, will players continually shell out money for future sets?

What will make players pay $$$ for future sets?
1) Gameplay innovation.
There needs to be fun with deckbuilding, new mechanics and such to compel gamers to WANT to tinker with decks and get new cards for combos etc. That’s how great CCGs work. They keep you mind engaged. Will a 15 minute game offer that level of deck engagement? Is there enough time for clever combos etc?

2) Support for the game.
This is most commonly seen in communities built around the game. Local tournaments, FNM, casual gameplay etc. Does Decipher have any tournament (casual or high level) support in place? Or are they relying on the ‘get a friend to buy…note, it’s BUY not play…and you’ll EARN money!’? Will this overshadow the game experience? Also, reiterating a point about cutting out retailers: I am not sure if gaming with mates at home, at work, at uni etc is going to make the game explode.

Sure, you can get a full set of U, double C and 1/3 R with one Kilo. I like that. But everyone knows that it’s cheap and easy to put together a U and C set from regular CCGs. Plus crap rares from most CCGs are cheap as chips.

The plus point to Fight Klub is that you’re limited to 1 rare of each type per deck. Whew. Thank God we don’t have to shell out mucho dollars for a playset.

I am looking forward to getting a playtest set to try out.

The plus point to Fight Klub is that you’re limited to 1 rare of each type per deck. Whew. Thank God we don’t have to shell out mucho dollars for a playset.

That was one of their better ideas as far as I’m concerned. I really like how they’ve done that.

I like the cheapness angle as well. Nothing worse than shelling out tons for a complete set. I also love the subscription for this. Plus I don’t have to remember when the sets come out… :p

I don’t think the subscription process is necessarily for me. I probably won’t be collecting full sets of anything unless they’re characters I am passionate about. Same goes for playstyles I prefer (primarily hand advantage and its aggressive counterpart, hand destruction).

But for those who like having all options available to them, the subscription is an excellent feature to have.

Getting all of the promo materials is also appealing to me. I’m not a collector; I just like to…

Hmm…I was going to write “have all the cards” but that would have sounded rather retarded. What I mean is that I don’t like to have cards that I can’t get without sending in six cereal box tops and waiting 6-47.9 weeks. I like the idea of getting all the nifty stuff without jumping through the hoops.

Yeah thats a big selling point for me too.

Another thing I like about FK.

The Black Beauty feature Decipher is making is great as far as I’m concerned.

The Black Beauty feature Decipher is making is great as far as I’m concerned.

Oh? In what way?

You can get cards that are unique, with different gameplay styles, and you can get ‘special cards’. I like the idea of cards that have a different playing style and a place where you can buy them.

I just like free stuff. Plus I think that is what the Wampa_Dan card will be in! :p

That would be cool beyond imagination…

It could be one of those proposed sidekick cards! :p

I was thinking more as an promo card or face of the cats :P

Lol, given my Jack Benny/Fred Allen relationship with the cats they would probably use it on their scratching posts… :p

Hah, when fighting agaisnt a member of the gang Schrodingers Cats take 8 damage. :p

Viral Marketing (players/ Mentors/ Connectors building community)

Let’s see. MtG does this without calling it viral marketing. The success of MtG (aside from the fact that it’s a great game) is due to it’s large prize circuit. That’s the only way for a game to take off. Do you have the budget to take players away from MtG while ago getting new players? UDE are trying damn hard and they’ve tossed in lots of $$

I think you are wrong about the large prize circuit. This is not to say a large prize circuit is not a bad thing. However, only a small fraction of players will ever play because of the prize circuit. Many people play tennis and golf, but only a select few will ever make it on the tour, yet people continue to play. People play if the game is fun and the social environment is positive. All the $$ does is add to the fun and social environment- either as a competitor or a spectator. In fact, many of the gaming companies are scaling back their prize circuits because they realize they are not worth the money.

To add on to what CoolBreeze said, I would just like to point out that you shouldn’t make Magic out to be automatically the Greatest TCG of All Time.

Final Fantasy VII is heralded by many to be the Greatest RPG of All Time, but is it? Play it again and you’ll find that there isn’t all that much that sets it apart from the rest, those that came before or after. No, the game gets its respect from how revolutionary the graphics were at the time. A lot of people consider FFIX the better game, myself included, but since it came out during the transition to the PS2, IMHO it didn’t get as much love as it should have been afforded.

In the same way, I think a people give Magic way too much credit, forgetting that much of its popularity is owed to it being the first TCG. That’s not to say it’s a bad game, but it’s not the best, either. In the end, should Fight Klub’s gameplay turn out to be more fun than Magic, who knows?

For the most part I agree Marth, although I rarely find anybody who even remembers a shred of FFIX. Seems to be all about FFX to me. Also keep in mind that popularity and rave can be generated almost just by wanting it to be generated. Halo 2 was borderline suck, and Halo 3 is inferior in so many ways to CoD 4 or Bioshock or many other shooters, but people continue to shout to defend that they are the best, simply because they’re supposed to be the best. It’s kinda like the Emperor’s New Clothes, just video games instead. Hype begets hype. I have suspicion that Magic has done this significantly.

I have to reply cause this just hit two topics my friends and I have discussed many times. To me and several of my friends FFVII was the worst FF ever. Yes the music was good and the graphics were new but the story was horrid. I prefer FFVIII myself and several of my friends agree. As for Mtg, I played the game for seven years starting at the release of revised and stopped playing cause it was no fun anymore. They bogged down game play with too many complicated rulings. It may have been the first tcg but it is by far not the best. It’s just still popular.