I own a games store, and am having a hard time deciding if this is a game that I want to promote, or shun.

First of all I am a gamer, and a game store owner. I play most of the games I sell. Fight Klub is definitely revolutionary, and it hits many of the buttons I personaly like in a new game: it grabs your attention, it wants to build a great gaming community and it’s made by a company that’s made some great games in the past. However, while it’s revolutionary do I want this revolution?

I know that many people don’t really have a good idea of how a games store truly functions, and basicaly think that since we’re a business all that we care about is money. Because the games store is a business they also often think of it as faceless, and greedy.

Well I definitely care about the money. Does that make me greedy? It IS my livelyhood. If my store doesn’t make money my kid doesn’t eat. I have a small shop, and we’ve only been open a year, and that year has been tough. I sell all sorts of games including CCGs like Magic, Chaotic, UFS and L5R. I also sell board games, miniature games like Warhammer, and RPGs.

I can tell you the mark-up on these games is only 35% – 45%, and even at that people think I’m ripping them off. Let me tell you that at these rates I’m barely making a living. With $3000 in rent, employees to pay, stock to bring in and other bills I need to sell $16,000 in product each month at that mark-up just to pay the bills.

So of course I’m going to be aprehensive about a game like this that might (jury’s out) take a bite out of my business.

So let’s examine it:

Profit, Yes or No?:
Normal mark-up is 35%-45%. But to get it I have to buy something (something that may not sell). Mark-up on Fight Kulb is only 10%. But all I have to do is give people my handle – no cost to me. So far so good.
So, as a store I go and give people my handle and they buy some cards, and their friends buy cards, and their friends friends buy cards. However, if you and your buddy are regular gamers at my store and you decide to get into it and you use my handle to get your cards what happens next? Well if you’re smart you’ll buy a single pack. You’ll refer your buddy to the site, and he’ll make all the purchases for the both of you. Now you and your buddy are buying your cards at 10% off, and I’ve made all of 0.1 x the price of a single kilo. So far not so good.

Games Promotion:
I’m also worried about the promotion-factor. A games store like myself lives of of gameing promotions like running tournaments, including the games information on my website, forums, newsletter and flyers. Most of my job is trying to build up a buzz and excitement for the games I sell. All day long I’m giving demos, painting lessons and discussing games with people. All so the games that I sell will continue to sell. Now is the 10% offered by decipher worth me cutting into the promotion of other games that might arguably make me more money? It would be a dangerous line to walk if I decide to start dedicating my own time to promote a game that might not end up making me much money, if indeed my own customers begin to refer each other to the game. If I end up with a Fight Klub gaming night, and 16 people attend. How many would have signed up using my store’s handle? 8? 4?

Gamers Have a Budget:
If I go through the effort of converting my customers to Fight Kulb I’m worried that they will spend less on the other games that I sell. Gamers have a budget, and promoting one game invariably cuts money away from annother. Magic makes me money. If I start promoting Fight Klub, and because of my promotion it does well my Magic sales might disapear. That is a legitimate concern for me.

Building My Gaming Community:
Finaly, I’ve spent a lot of time and effort building a gaming community around my store. Since I am the store owner, I have a ton of influence on that community. If I decide to promote a game (a game that I know is good) it will do well. However it takes a lot of effort on my part. I teach people how to play, I create topics on my store’s web-forum. I include information in my newsletter, website and flyers. I run gaming nights, and I run tournaments. None of those things make me any money (not even the tournaments) unless my customers turn aroud and reward me with thier business.

So, in closing yes I’m a games store owner, and yes I’m looking at it from a financial view-point, but also from an effort view-point. The whole idea of Fight Klub is to be an underground player-run game. Which is great in concept. Players should have as much input as possible in a game like this. However most players that I know enjoy the atmosphere that I create at my store, and I would think that such players would want my store to continue to exist. So where does that leave me, the games store owner. Well to be honest I feel left out of the loop. I just wish there was more to this arangement for me to get behind because I personaly am very intrigued by this game, but am extremely hesitant to even let people know it exists.

I am not convinced that Fight Klub and Decipher are offering me, the small games store owner, enough incentive and support to fully get behind this game.

You, my friend, sound like a connector.

You put up a poster in the store, maybe use your personal cards to show a customer the game, and point him to the website.

As long as he uses your name when he creates an account, you get 5% of all further purchases he EVER makes. NO investment involved for you. Now, that is only 5%, and not 10%. That’s because a Connector gets 5%, and then that player is tacked on to a mentor, who gains 10%. Should you, as connector, get that player as a mentor as well, you’d gain 15% total. (but we don’t know how the assigning from a connector works, so you could not get him as a mentee)

My advice would be to figure out how the above works (if you can “force” them to become your mentee, AND recruit them as a Connector, that’s 15%). If you can’t “ensure” the 15%, you act as a mentor, just like I personally will be doing, and most people here will be doing, and recruit them to gain 10%.

That’s 10% of their future purchases, period. The fact that the game can only be bought online through Decipher ensures that. You don’t have to actually DO anything, but make sure that when they actually create an account, they use your name. In fact, if you have internet access in the store, you could do that with them IN THE STORE. They wouldn’t even have to make a purchase right then. Just register.

The tournaments, and newsletters, and general support you provide, then, is a marketing ploy to get them to buy more cards from Decipher. You hold an “introduction night”, where you use your personal cards to show the game to people, let them play a few rounds, then tell them how to get in.

In short: Being a Connector allows you to advertise, gain some extra profit on the side. No investment involved. (outside of stuff you do to advertise; I’m going to use a website and crappy little business cards)

But Connector status seems to be more for magazines or store chains that aren’t so directly involved. Being involved as you would, as a game store owner, I’d say you want to become a mentor. 10% of purchases from everyone you recruit. Period. For Life. No Investment. All you have to do is make people want to play the game. Based on what we know about how many cards will be released per year (sets, and the cost to collect them), I expect to spend $400 a year on Fight Klub. That’s only $40 from me, and over the course of a year, but I’m only one player. And even if you never saw me again after that first day, you’d still get the 10%.

Think of Fight Klub as a fun addition to your other card games. Don’t hold Fight Klub tournaments. Have Fight Klub matches between your games of Magic in your Magic Tournament. Use the 15 game of Fight Klub to fill space in other tournaments, or to kill time in your store. This isn’t going to replace other things as your “big money maker”. Fight Klub is going to be like icing on your “game-store cake”.

Hope all that made sense. Feel free to ask questions. (that’s what we’re here for!)

~The Centurion

quick correction AC, Connectors get 10% and the FM gets 5%

I SO got that backwards, and that SO changes some of my statements.

MY BAD. (I blame Chemistry class, because I was typing that and trying to pay attention at the same time….)

Yeah, be a Connector. You get the 10% like everyone else, and then a mentor gets a “gift” of 5% from you.

Pretty much, the only way to draw real profit with Fight Klub is to put a bunch of effort into recruiting people, and then keep them active so they buy more cards.

I don’t really know what’s in it for Connectors, because like BKGames says, there’s nothing preventing friends from “going in together” to buy kilos on their own account rather than continuing to buy with the store’s handle.

However, I imagine there are sneaky ways that a game store owner can turn a profit on this. For example: Game store owner sets up a mentee account under his wife’s name, then purchases a stack of kilos under this account at the equivalent of 10% off. Game store owner then “exclusively” sells kilos out of his store at a small markup (say, $36 each); he can then cater to the impulse buyers, and still provide his handle for anyone who wants to buy online. That’s now a 30% markup (minus shipping), plus his connector bonus for bringing on new players.

Of course, if Decipher finds out about it, they get banned. It just doesn’t look good for the game owner if he wants to do things legitimately… Now, if Decipher wanted to cut a deal for bulk sales to Connectors only for in-store sales, it might work a little better for all parties, but it’s still shy of the 35% markup that BKGames is looking for.

I do agree with Shrike’s bulk sales idea. It’s always nice to pick up some cards at the store when you play and that’d be a good way to do it…

That’s what I was thinking. It’s a gamble whether or not a player who tries out FK in a store is going to still be interested enough by the time he or she gets home to go online and make the purchase, and then wait a week or two for the cards to arrive! I mean, people have a lot of distractions, they lose information (like a handle) that is written down, they hold off on making big purchases… And waiting for delivery is a drag! I think it would be much better for new players if the cards are available up front. Even if in-store sales are only available for set One, it would be a very good thing. For CCG players, I think it’s the initial purchase that is the toughest choice to make. “Do I really want to commit to this game? Is there a better one I’d rather be playing? How long is this CCG going to be around? Will my friends like it?” And so on. There are plenty of reasons that people can come up with NOT to play, if given the time to think and worry about it. But the impulse buy has great power, “This game is cool, and I want it NOW!”

Just something to consider.

I hate to keep echoing you, but the idea of just allowing One for sale is a great idea. It would allow them to compete and see what the game is all about for one lump sum. 30 bucks wouldn’t be outta reach for most gamers to give something a shot. and if you sell it to the card stores for even about 20 they could still turn 33% profit…

Someone mentioned getting banned for selling kilos in-store. I can see that if you put an extra markup on it, but if you sell the Kilo at MSRP, will you still get banned? I definitely understand Decipher’s desire to get around the current system. I imagine it means more profit for them as well as those people who do well as Mentors. But, online sales still scare a lot of people. Being able to pick up a pack right away would be a big boon.

I don’t know if there would even be a MSRP, if the game isn’t intended for retail sales (direct sales only).

The question then becomes, who gets the 10% from someone who buys a kilo at the store, if he buys it after a Mentor demos the game for him? I imagine there’s no way to split it 50/50… It would seem fair that the Mentor would get it for volunteering his time, especially since the store would already get money from the immediate sale.

My guess is the store would take the profit on any direct sales and then when the player signs up then it’d be the 10/5 mentor/connector split. Stores also should keep in mind that if they “connectorize” properly they can practically buy cards to sell for free (with the % of those they connected’s money).

I was about to comment, but Shrike beat me to it.

The problem with this model for sales is that you can’t credit people for Kilo purchases if they are bought in stores. If I were to buy a kilo at my local comic shop, how’s my mentor supposed to get his 10% of that?

As much as I would love to drive down the road, pick up a Kilo, and have cards RIGHT THEN, I think the “online-only” plan is much better. Stores can get in by trading or selling cards. Or hosting tourneys (even if it’s a FK tourney, and you can’t sell FK cards, they are still IN the store, which is one step closer to buying something else; oh, and you could always sell counters and stuff like FK will use)

I do think the 10% on the first sale would be gladly passed on if it gets someone to play> Which is why I endorse them allowing the sale of one in the store. it would allow newbies to get a feel of the game, but they’d have to make future purchases through the internet, or alternately perhaps they could do a retail only 2-player game much as they did twice for SWCCG…

As far as the benefit of getting the cards right then in a card shop as opposed to waiting for them to ship to you, I think that it will only matter for new players. I plan on being a regular, and I intend to get the kilos as soon as the set is available. It’ll be shipped to me at the same time that it’ll be shipped to any card shops that may be carrying them.

I imagine it working like this:

The Mentor finds a potential player at a game store, and, using his own cards, they play a game or two. The new player says, “Wow, cool game! Where can I get me summa that?”

The Mentor replies, “Well, you can get the basic game here (walks New Player to the counter and shows him One), but all expansions are only available online. Two is available now, and more will be coming soon. Oh, and you’ll need THIS to buy them (hands New Player a card with his handle on it).”

In this example, the new player tries the game, buys the game (One), and now has his Mentor’s handle for all future purchases. The new player need not buy anything else from the store because One is complete unto itself. The new player has already made his initial investment into the game, meaning it’s very likely that he’ll buy further expansions. Also, the new player has cards IN HAND to show to his friends, and the excitement of a new game freshly upon him (this enthusiasm is more likely to get his friends also involved in FK).

I think it’s very important for players to have something in hand, so they can not just play immediately, but also remind themselves that there are MORE cards out there to be had…

Ok i think this is the thread i was looking for.

1. Has anyone addressed the point of the shop owner opening an account in his wifes name and getting the kickback?

2. If i want to go into a partnership with a vendor (connector) and say yeah advertise the game, give them your handle and ill be the associated mentor (5% for them doing the advertising for me? why not?) and in exchange ill come in and demo the game.
Now what is the incentive for the shop keeper? well they use their handle and recieve kickback for all players they start. again what is to stop players from users wives’ names and such not sure.

As for the store carrying product…maybe there is a way to make some money selling singles or boosters (break down the kilo).

My question is i guess, how do i partner with a comic shop to ensure i am the associated mentor, and how do we stop people from just buying off a phantom account?

The Baron

1. That requires a separate credit card, first of all. Second, I bet it would get obvious of Mr. invites Mrs., and then only Mrs. ever buys any cards. You’d have to buy enough as Mr. to not make it obvious, while still buying enough as Mrs. to get the %age.

Think of this, too. If a shop owner mentors his wife, and then she buys cards, eventually people will figure it out. And let me tell you, that form of “cheating the system” will most likely result in the loss of players. And, of course, once they are turned in, I can see Decipher revoking that %age.

2. You can’t choose the mentor you are connected to like that. If I, a Connector, recruit 3 people, they may each go to a different mentor. You can’t control the flow of new members. If you sign up under a connector, your mentor is a random person in the area.

I think stores should have some sort of $-based interaction with the customer. Selling singles is nice. Them buying Kilos, and then breaking them down into packs for resell, however, is like cheating the system. That directly counters what Decipher is trying to accomplished, and will probably be frowned upon. I think stores should be able to sell accessories (playmats, bags/deckboxes, the counters, etc), but should let Decipher handle the cards.

In short:

You can’t, and phantom accounts will leave tell-tale signs, and will probably get caught.

Maybe this is something to be considered: everyone’s supposed to buy One. Regardless of when you get into Fight Klub, Decipher seems to really want everyone to start with One. If stores are “allowed” to carry an inventory of One kilos, and then the rest of the packs are bought from the Decipher website, you take care of the issues of who gets the credit.

As a prospective store owner (I’m giving it serious consideration at the moment), I think I’d be okay with giving the mentorship to the person who demos the game, if that demo resulted in them buying One from me. If someone walks in off the street, then I give them my handle. As a mentor running demos (in theory), I’d be okay with “losing” the 10% on that initial pack if they signed up with my handle for future purposes.

Just a thought.

Yeah stingray you might be on to something. I will try to think like a store owner ( perhaps one day i’ll open a shop). As a store owner i would probably order in the One kilo’s to sell in store, then attach my connector card (with handle) to the top of it. This would satisfy the “instant fix” need.
The problem with this is that you would either eat the cost of the shipping, or have to charge that in the retail price (which would appear to be over charging).
But i guess if customers complain about the price or have read that they can just order online then just give them your handle and let em go shop (10% return for you).
To address the issue of promoting the game through the store, maybe all you need is a poster up with your handle on it. Everyone who uses your handle will get you some money (10% return) and all you had to do was put up a poster.
I guess its really a matter of how many new players you can lasso.

I hate when i set out to say something, write a bunch of words, and then wonder if i stated what i wanted to. curse this foruming. but i have said enough for now (probably even restated someone else’s words)

While I like the idea of selling One in stores, it does NOT fit with the mentor and 10% format they are using now.

If you buy in-store, you aren’t registered. If you aren’t registered, no one gets 10% for recruiting you. The store might, but because you are buying the cards THERE and not on Decipher’s official site, you aren’t registered with Decipher. The process of rewarding mentors with 10% and getting people to spread by word of mouth is DEPENDANT on ONLY Decipher selling cards.

If you buy One in the store, you won’t be able to recruit people. You won’t have a handle, and thus cannot give a handle to people to get them online. Buying cards in person only will screw you over from ever getting the 10% yourself.

If it’s an official Decipher card store, sure, they might be able to do it there. Otherwise, stores need to stay away from handling the cards directly. The system is not meant for you to sell me cards. It is meant for you to recruit me, support my gaming (so I buy more cards), and maybe sell me accessories, and let DECIPHER sell me cards. That % of my purchases is Decipher’s gift to you for doing all that supportive stuff.

Man you nailed that AC, do you have a marketing background?
I have no more questions. /bow before a deserved FM

Why thank you! lol

Yes, I do have a marketing background. I’ve been a consumer for, let’s say 14 years now. (I honestly can’t say I bought something before I turned 5, so we’re using that as the “I became a consumer” benchmark)

While I see your point I still think it’d be easier to actually recruit people if you can get them some cards then and there…

I figure i will probably buy a few extra Ones and sell them at face value to new recruits who will need my handle to buy Twos (its 10% for life, come on next MTG, that would be like 30years). or worse, play the ol’ the first one’s free mwhahaha
-The Baron
“First One’s Free”

So the theory is we get them hooked with the first kilo and then they become addicted…oh my oh my… :p