I mean sure, I can spam my handle all over the Interwebs, but who’s gonna come here and actually buy a Kilo on my recommendation? Not anybody who only knows about FK from seeing me blab about it online or because I slipped them a flyer somehow. To actually sell someone a Kilo (because that’s really what Decipher is asking us to do to get 10%) you’d probably need to, at the very least, demo the game to them. This immediately brings the reality of the marketing campaign down from limitless viral possibilities to people you’re able to meet and get to sit down with you for a few minutes to see what’s up with the game. That’s quite a bit of effort for $3.

The way I look at it, if I’m sold on a game, I’m already going to try to convince my friends (and random passers by at the comic-shop or cons or whatever) to buy it so I’ll have someone to play with.

So if even a handful actually pick up the game and play with me (which I would hope is the case, or else I woudn’t be playing at all), it comes out to about an extra kilo for me (still sounds funny) each time an expansion comes out.

I don’t think the “marketing” that we would be doing isn’t something that we (as just players) aren’t already doing anyway. The ten percent is kind of like a player rewards system in a roundabout way.

Firstly, its 10% every time that player buys product, so assuming each player you bring in buys every expansion it becomes a little more than $3. I don’t know about you, but I’ve bought a lot of single starter/booster combos just to playtest them myself regardless of whether the game was demo’d to me or not.

As for spamming your moniker all over the place, that’s essentially the idea. You’d be surprised at how many people will sign up because of your recommendation, a really great web site, a flyer, a demo in a coffee shop, or you passing them a few free cards. Its all about opportunity, and if you don’t do anything with that opportunity, then you are no worse off than now, however if you take it and sign a few up then it might just pay for CCG addiction.

Firstly, its 10% every time that player buys product, so assuming each player you bring in buys every expansion it becomes a little more than $3.

That’s assuming rather a lot. I doubt if the majority of people you try to bring in buy anything at all, expecting them to purchase multiple Kilos is asking quite a bit. And even if you say each player you bring in buys 3 Kilos of each set a year, that only comes out to $36 a year per player. WELL HOT DAMN, 36 BUCKS! I BETTER QUIT MY DAY JOB!

I don’t know about you, but I’ve bought a lot of single starter/booster combos just to playtest them myself regardless of whether the game was demo’d to me or not.

Yeah when the game is sitting there in the story ready to be bought for $3-$4 a booster and $10-$12 a starter, sure. That’s because CCGs are largely an impulse buy. When you have to get an “invite” from another player, order a minimum $30+shipping of product online, and wait at least a week for it to arrive? I don’t think too many people are gonna maintain interest in the product long enough to go through all that.

You’d be surprised at how many people will sign up because of your recommendation, a really great web site, a flyer, a demo in a coffee shop, or you passing them a few free cards.

Sign up and spend $30+shipping on product on a flyer? You’re damn right I’d be surprised. Unless it’s zero people. Which it would be.

It’s going to take off because they have 6000 people who are going to play and b8u8y Kilos. It doesn’t matter too much if others do or not, Decipher will be set. Of course, we (the founding members) will have a hard time trying to get people to commit to this, because those who are interested will have already signed up.

It was a masterstroke by Decipher. Hey come join up now and get some privileges. Hey, get everyone signed up now so we never need to pay the 10%.

That’s just me being really cynical.

Here’s how it will probably go in our area. Myself and one other guy are signed up (we’ll call him Bill). Bill is going to run tournaments, and kick the 10% back in prize support. So, I’ll point everyone to Bill and hopefully he’ll get quite a few of the old Decipher gaming crowd signed up. We’ll then arrange for places to play, and start word of mouth advertising to others, and get others signed up.

So, in our area, we won’t have a single person make any money off this game, because we’ll plough it back into prize support. But we hoep for lots of fun and enjoyment from the game, just like other games we play. I don’t think this will all work if everyone is really trying to make money off it.

Cheers.

Well, for me it was going to be a wait and see policy, but I thought what the heck, I’m been through the best 3 games to ever come out on little pieces of fake cardboard (still playing 1 atm). Why not try this? I know alot of people are ready for Decipher to land on their perverbial rump again (I won’t list them all) but some of us woul dlike to see a new game that is fun to play and can generate some sort of community besides Magic again.

OcelotX I think you’re being overly negative. I don’t for a second believe that Decipher expects people to make a living out of this, that’s just idiotic. The incentive is more to enable YOU as a player to essentially play for free, which if you put the effort into isn’t really that hard. In the process you get more people to play against and the game grows.

But hey, if you’re not willing to put the effort in then you won’t benefit from it. My question to you is why did you bother to sign up in the first place?

I don’t for a second believe that Decipher expects people to make a living out of this, that’s just idiotic.

I was being facetious.

The incentive is more to enable YOU as a player to essentially play for free, which if you put the effort into isn’t really that hard.

At minimum, playing for free would require you to find 10 players who want to buy as much as you do. I think that will be pretty difficult, especially when you consider that if you’re a dedicated enough player to try to do this, you’ll probably want to buy quite a bit of product. The more product you try to cover with the 10%, the more you need your players to buy and the harder it gets. Most people who would be into the game as much as you (buying as much product as you) would probably be trying to get the 10% from other players themselves, and would be less keen on giving you their 10% and paying cash themselves. This means the players you’re actually going to be trying to get are the less dedicated purchasers, who are both less reliable to buy future product and buy in smaller quantities (thus you need more than 10 of them).

In the process you get more people to play against and the game grows.

This is true, but so far we know virtually nothing about the game so who knows if it’s worthwhile to grow the game. There are several games out there with strong existing communities for players to choose from, and FK has yet to show itself to be something worth trying to build, so this is not yet a strong argument.

But hey, if you’re not willing to put the effort in then you won’t benefit from it.

In my experience, when hobbies become a second job they stop being fun. So really, I’d love to not have to put an effort into this. And should this game tank, I certainly wouldn’t want to be involved in a repeat of the “players/product champions didn’t get the word out for us” blamestorming Decipher engaged in when Wars sank in record time.

My question to you is why did you bother to sign up in the first place?

To bitch and moan on the message boards, duh.

Ultimately, the value of the “10%” hinges heavily on the quality of the game. If it’s good, then I’ll play it. I’ll convince my friends to play. I’ll share it with people I know that play TCGs. Hopefully it will be a fun game first. Then, if I happen to make any cash with it, all the better. shrug

makphisto I think thats all any of us are hoping for.

It’s as simple as this.
Who is going to come in here and join up just because of a flyer or an internet ad?
Well… we all did (and I wasn’t even looking for card games, to be honest).

If you want it to take off, you will make it happen.
If you hate the game when you finally see what it’s all about (gameplay and everything) then you won’t put effort into it.
That’s the bottom line.

I for one love the idea, because it basically ensures that I will have people to play with.
Why? Because I am going to recruit my friends first!
Then, of course, kick it up a notch and begin a viral campaign.

you know they don’t have to give you the 10%

I’m not sure, but why is everyone still talking about flyers and demos? What is this, 1998? The internet is a huge place with so much advertising all over it – if you wanted, you never would have to leave your house again. Extreme example, yes, but it’s also a fact that the internet allows us all to keep in touch with people from all over the world instantly – a task that was much slower back when it was physical mailings only. I talk to people all over the country and in several other countries.

My point is, Decipher could put a Flash “How to Play” demo on the site. Other games have done it and it’s not that hard. You don’t need to corner someone in a store and ram cards down their throat to get players. Start with your IM friends. Give them your handle, give them the password, or whatever the invitation will be and let them come and explore. If they see it and explore the game at their own leisure, you’re more likely to have a real player. Strong arming them in the store for them to say yes while you’re there could be a player that changes his mind the minute he walks out the door. Sure, if you’re a skilled demo person, that won’t happen, but you need not be face-to-face to make an impression. Sometimes the invitation is enough. Extend the invitation (not spam it, spam is annoying) and let them come.

There are basically two forms of advertising that this is hinging on, and thus two forms of profiteering off of the 10% for life mechanism. Each is very similar to an ecological theory.

The methods that most people are talking about amounts to the dandelion theory – scatter seeds all over the goddamned place to maximize the chances of future generations taking root. It’s carpet bombing. You put your handle everywhere, and some people will use it to get in. Once they do, you’re profiting off of their every purchase. Strength: You’re unlikely to miss a venue if you hit all of them at once. Weakness: You’re not really convincing anybody – you’re just passively netting those who have already been convinced, they just don’t know it yet.

The other method is the oak theory – you try to pinpoint a specific target that is a “soft” target that has a high likelihood of success and concentrating on them. Thus, chatting up the game with friends, family, or folks at cons or game stores who seem to be interested in this kind of stuff. Strength: High likelihood of success per-target. Weakness: Eggs per basket ratio is particularly high.

There’s no optimal strategy, which is probably why people are saying it’ll never work – there’s no “always a winner” strategy that’ll make it easy for you and alleviate all risk.

It’s as simple as this.
Who is going to come in here and join up just because of a flyer or an internet ad?
Well… we all did (and I wasn’t even looking for card games, to be honest).

Sure we signed up.

Did we buy $35 worth of product, sight largely unseen?

No.

They way I’m looking at it isn’t an income stream as such. It’s a way to either subsidise my playing of the game, and/or get others into the game by using the money from Decipher to purchase starters for others. This is one way to create a critical mass.

As stated though, it all hinges on the quality of the game. Is this just a fancy pants Lunch Money? We’ll have to wait an see.

Just remember guys it’s a game first and a source of income second. But… if I got 10% for every booster my buddies bought (on my recommendation) back the SWCCG days I think I would’ve had an expansion or two paid for.

I know that personally I have about twelve really good friends who I will be suggesting this to and if it is a good game I would imagine at least 8 or 9 of them will play. If all I ever had was eight people, who were spending $90 per 3 months (which they would), I would end up with $288-$314. If I spent $90 every three months, then that means I would have already covered all of that product.

If I can get 1,000 players, I’m sure going to. But I’m not necessarily expecting that either.

Zach

If all I ever had was eight people, who were spending $90 per 3 months (which they would), I would end up with $288-$314. If I spent $90 every three months, then that means I would have already covered all of that product.

Your math needs some help there. You get 10% of what each of them spends. 10% of $90 every 3 months for each of 8 people is $288 annually. If you also buy $90 every 3 months, that’s $360 annually. So still $72 for you, or two more players you have to get to buy $90 every 3 months.

OcelotX, do you work for another card company or some rival to Decipher? Why are you so adamant that it is going to fail?

I know I can convince at least 20-40 people to buy the game. I’m not worried in the slightest. If you have nothing but negative things to post, why do you bother? “To bitch and moan” is a stupid excuse.

I’ll bet you’re the guy that on the surface hates everything anyone talks about. Then goes home to everything he just said he hated.

Yeah god forbid I point out the fact that you need 10 people instead of 8 all buying as much as you to cover your purchases fully. Clearly only a biased individual with severe personality problems would do a thing like state objective truths.

$30 for a kilo is not much especially in comparison to other CCGs and if $72 was my annual expenditure for a card game that’s not bad at all.

Combine that with a decent shipping rate (especially for those us who are overseas) I can see a lot of people getting into this.

Just a general comment: it’s not just what someone says it’s how they say it.

Keep it cordial people. We’re all only human after all.

At this point it looks like it could be a good ride, they got us here, if it is good others will come… we will all see.

That’s the key Kraten, if it’s good. Good game play and good design, the look, will make or break this game. Actually, good design can even go beyond good gameplay. M:TG is proof of that. The art they have for that game is amazing, the card look is something that makes you want to hold the cards. They just say ‘fun game.’ The look of these cards say, ‘I’m going to be a bit of a challenge.’

Nah, M:TG has really good art, but the actual card designs are very unintuitive. Decipher games usually have much better card designs than most of the other TCGs I’ve seen, and Fight Klub looks like no exception.